Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

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Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

Post by FlatEarthInquisitor on Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:41 pm



The presentation can be found here


this is very dense, so I will be posting a small bit and coming back to edit.

First observations
(taken from my Cathinfo post)

His quotes from the Church Fathers come from a PROTESTANT website.

Yes you read that right. Father Pfeiffer, instead of going to his books, goes to a protestant website to get commentary about the Church Fathers.

Here is the link
http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c034.html

WORD for WORD exactly the same.

There is no backup whatsoever for the claims in these statements.
He also does not answer questions about curvature. Very convenient.

St. Thomas

Another important point is St. Thomas.

ST. THOMAS DOES NOT FAVOUR THE ROUND EARTH.

Read the two quotes for yourselves. He simply cites Aristotle. He does not come down one way or another. If you try to drag in St. Thomas into the flat earth, you are being intellectually dishonest.

St. Jerome
he pretends that the St. Jerome quote is some spooky inaccessible, lost in time manuscript that we cannot know the context of.

But it is readily available.

St. Jerome, Commentary on Isaiah

God "[had] established the great mass of the land and had gathered it together above the seas and rivers, so that the heaviest element [earth] hangs over the lighter weight waters by the will of God, who like a king sits above the circle of the earth. There are some who assert that this mass is like a point and globe...What, then, will the land be over ...?"
Original latin .here



Total intellectual dishonesty by Father Pfeiffer.

_______________________________________

SECOND PART OF THE POST

Most of what Father presents has been refuted. This post will only give a brief responses. If you want more detail, then go to the relevant section on this website, and if you then can't find anything, post a question.
Some remarks then,

-A lot of pyschoanalysis by Father, with insinuations that we are protestants, and worship science.

-If there are a lot of non Catholic outside the movement it is because it is something self evident, not because flat earth is non catholic. Everything that is true is ours.

-A total lie by Father about there being no ancients in favour about the flat earth. There has not been a focus in this site about this because it is more important to address the Catholics in favour of it. But here is a well referenced start HERE. and video HERE. They are not Catholic but they are well sourced, unlike Fathers' protestant website he uses.

-He says it is a new teaching and that we say it is a new science. This is totally false. See the quotes of the Fathers of the Church in the "pertinent quotes" thread here on this site.

-He attacks us because we don't offer a fancy explanations as the globalists for certain phenomena. The fact of the matter is that all aircraft have only gone to a certain height. All of what NASA does is a lie, and so therefore we cannot have for the moment explanations for everything. This is normal. Globalists' explanations are not worth anything anyway, because their whole science is based on a faulty premise. Flat-earthers want to bring us back to base so true science can advance.

- He tried to say that flat earthism reached its peak after Darwinism, with the implication that it is linked, is absurd and historically false.

-He tries to make out that flat earthism was always a minority. Totally historically false. The total opposite until the 1500s.

-That the earth is motionless and at the centre is part of the flat earth.

-His giving pro flat earth arguments is better than most, but at the end of the day is a cynical because they are either not our main arguments or they are misrepresentations.

-Orbis can be translated as circle as well as globe. If he clearly understood this it would have saved us all a lot of trouble, as almost all of his "pro-globe" scripture quotes are based on this. They therefore fit perfectly with the flat earth.  Poles can also apply to flat earth as he himself admits later in the conference.

-Gravity is not our principal proof of the flat earth.  For flat earthers, there are scientific proofs, such as lack of curvature, and then there are curious phenomena about the globe earth which we point out (such as no commercial flights directly over antartica.) He needs to make the distinction between these two. As does anyone who opens their mouth to attack the flat earth.

-In the flat earth model the sun and the moon can be spheres. This does not mean that the earth has to be a sphere. His talking about the sun and moon is not a proof for the flat earth, and he knows this.

- You should always be able to see curvature on any sphere even when you are looking down at it. To say the opposite is absurd and contrary to common sense. The reason is that a sphere is by definition a circle in 3D no matter what way you look at it.

- His attempted philosophical arguments about the perfection of a sphere are very beautiful, but do not in anyway "proof" the globe earth. Further they can also apply to the "globe" of the dome above and dome below the circular flat earth.

-His "evidence" for the round earth is glossed over very quickly. Here are some rapid fire responses - ships over the horizon is not proof because they remain at the same level instead of descending. Modern photographic equipment and telescopes proof this. - Seeing the polar star at different angles is due to perspective - Eclipses are not necessarily proof of the round earth. Photos from NASA are highly demonstrably faked. Geodetic surveys do not show the earth to be round, quite the contrary actually.

-Flat earthers are not attached rigidly to the Gleason map. If there are inaccuracies we are willing to admit them, it doesn't disprove the flat earth. Maps are merely representations.

- The flight from New zealand to South america in reality takes 29 hours. ie. its fake. There has been good work done on this HERE.

- He claims we say "all the ancients were idiots". We say the opposite. It is him who denigrates the ancients, by misrepresenting them.

-He tells a total lie in saying that "the Fathers were unaminous in teaching that the earth is a globe".

- His comparing flat earth to Zoroastrianism is completely ridiculous and without foundation.  

-He attacks our horizon proofs as inaccurate and saying that when they are recalculated they all work out. This may be the case for some but not for most. See the ones provided on this site.

- A round plate is round nonetheless. That is round in only one direction is irrelevant.

- We do not take science over philosophy, but science is more easily understood by most, which is why it is used. Because flat earth is the truth, philosophy can only but fit with it. Since philosophy is but the abstraction of what we see with our senses. Further it is harder to lie when we see something before our eyes. There are many sophists in philosophy however.

- He dismisses NASA fake as irrelevant towards the end of the conference. They are indeed relevant because he used them as one of his round earth proofs earlier in his conference!

- The refutation of the emergency landing for a pregnant woman was completely ridiculous and inaccurate. He measures from Japan when he should be measuring from the point of where the incident started to occur!

-He makes one last ditch attempt to close by saying in a beautiful tone that there is "no deception, in the Saints, the Fathers and Sacred scripture" We agree! There is not. Which is why most of them agree with us!

In conclusion, Father Pfeiffer has tried to shut down this issue by employing "authorities" in his arguments. He fails miserably in this as we have shown. Most, if not all the Fathers agree with us [See relevant sections of this website]. Most of the saints agree with us, and Sacred Scripture certainly does agree with us, when you read it with an open mind.

He tried to do this in order to put the lay people in their place and assert himself, and to make it look like a resolved question. The tactic is clever here. It means that if you accept his arguments, then it will be almost useless to argue on the science, because it will always have to defer in its interpretation to his perverted notion of Tradition on the subject. Happily though, the cat is out of the bag and in the internet age we live in, he won't get away with this.

AMDG


Last edited by FlatEarthInquisitor on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:07 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

Post by ItsFlat on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:01 pm

He makes so many errors it's hard to know where to start.

At least he acknowledges the primacy of Scripture over scientism, but then he repeatedly incorrectly uses the terms "round" and "circle" when he is describing a globe.

Language is important and being precise in terminology on this topic is paramount.

More later...

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Re: Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

Post by ItsFlat on Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:12 pm

There is so much I want to write about this, but it's a hard time of year to sit down at the computer...too much to do at the moment!

But, I also wanted to quickly add something: there is a major flaw in Fr. Pfeiffer's ball-earth argument when it comes to the science.

He acknowledges the truth of the stationary, motionless, geocentric nature of God's Creation, as told in Scripture, even though he does not yet acknowledge the same for the flat plane of earth.

However, the way the SEASONS work on the ball-earth model is due to the motion of the tilt of the earth. Therefore, the earth cannot be a ball because BOTH cannot be true. You cannot have a tilted earth and be true to what the Bible says. He does not address the fact that seasons do not work on the ball earth/Bible combination. Seasons ONLY work with the motionless, Biblical earth on the flat earth model.

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Re: Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

Post by flatterme on Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:18 pm

Another problem for Fr Pfeiffer and the modernist geocentric stationary ball earthers is that scripture describes the firmament which set like a tent over the face of the earth Genesis 1:6-7 and 14, Psalms 19:1 and many other places in the bible. Scripture describes water above the firmament for rain/dew, etc and water below in the form of seas and rivers and lakes. If earth is a globe, with the closest sun 93,000,000 mile away sun, just how big is this firmament if earth were a globe? Scripture says the sun, moon and stars are set IN the firmament. So, the firmament is conservatively 100,000,000 miles long and wide and high? How does a tent or dome cover a ball-shaped object if earth is a globe? And where in fact, is East on a globe? And where is West? How can you tell? Why is North up as far as the "globe" model suggests when no authentic photos are available and by all standards, it is said that all sides are up? How can Jerusalem be at the center of the earth as the Church insists if earth is a globe? Also, unknown to the moderns, the word 'orbis' means circle/ orbit/ compass, or in other words a flat circle. There happens to be a word for sphere or ball. Strongs Concordance reveals it is "dur" and can be found in Isaiah 22:18 18 "He will crown thee with a crown of tribulation, he will toss thee like a BALL into a large and spacious country: there shalt thou die, and there shall the chariot of thy glory be, the shame of the house of thy Lord." Earth is not a globe.
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Re: Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

Post by flatterme on Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:14 pm

More thoughts. Scripture says earth has foundations, (pillars or poles) upon which it is firmly set. How can a floating ball have a foundation? Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding." And also Judith 16:18 "The mountains shall be moved from the foundations with the waters: the rocks shall melt as wax before thy face." 2 Samuel 22:16 "And the overflowings of the sea appeared, and the foundations of the world were laid open at the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of the spirit of his wrath." The earth also has a face as scripture says. Genesis 4:14 "Behold thou dost cast me out this day from the face of the earth, and I shall be hidden from thy face, and I shall be a vagabond and a fugitive on the earth: every one, therefore, that findeth me, shall kill me." The connotations of face is that it is always flat and front side. Like the face of a building. Or a person's face as the comparison above.
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Re: Father Pfeiffer declares war on Flat Earth

Post by FlatEarthFanatic on Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:54 am

oh you silly flat earther! The waters above are the ozone layer, foundations are the earth and molten magma, and east and west is in relation to magnetic north! Ta da!
Easy peasy!

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